Early Outs.

Reports From Mayor 8 A and B early outs being offered again. Wonder how many will be taking this is this part of the plan the Mayor has in mind? Earlier this year there was a mass exodus of employees from the city through Early Outs. Looks like this is the second round..







30 thoughts on “Early Outs.”

  1. Vegas,
    How can you say “most” employees do not have some form of qualifications? I deal with the city workers at city hall on a regular basis. With few exceptions, I find them to be helpful and willing to do what is within their power to help. Don’t know how that amounts to the city paying top dollar for unqualified people.

    I don’t see how it is “obvious” that the city spends thousands of dollars for outside studies and consultants because the employees do not have the qualifications. From where did you draw that conclusion?

    Seems like you are using a wide brush to paint most employees as unqualified and greedy.


  2. I totally agree with you it is the Mayor and the Council spending the cities money very unwisely. It is not the city workers. They are not in control. I have no doubt that the Mayor uses consultants to somehow benefit himself. He is the one that makes you think city workers are not qualified because of his constant going to the outside for opinions etc. When you pay 10k for a Financial accounting standards board review and then you pay your Accounting firm equal money for the same service makes you wonder. Accounting firms should always keep you up to date on new standards as a normal part of the audit. Why is the accounting firm now being paid to take care of health benefits???

    What I have said in the past and will continue to say. The percentage for wages and fringes is much to high.

    This is the way I see it.
    We authoried a millage that pays for sanitation.
    We authorized a millage to keep public safety going.
    We pay for Public act 345.
    We pay more than our share for water and sewage.
    We approved a Headlee overide to once again pay more taxes.
    I think the taxpayers of this city have done more than their share to keep this city afloat.

    Now what do we get in return for all that we do for the city?
    We get fire and police protection. Thats a good thing.
    We get flooded basements.
    Large plumbers bills.
    We drive on city streets that are falling apart and in some cases not drivable.

    What happens to the money? The Mayor and the council haven’t met an expensive benefit they didn’t like. They don’t believe in fixing streets or maintaining the sewer systems..

    I have checked the wage and benefit scales in the private sector and with other non profits. The wage factor overall if they can do the job they were hired to do are pretty much in line. In comparison fringe benefits for city workers far exceed that of private sector and non profits.

    No I did not fail a civil service exam. Never took one. However, passed my state exams with flying colors. Watch the council meetings ,definately bad attitudes from some city employees.


  3. Who?

    You are all over the map on this one. No, I wasn’t talking about the “overwhelming number of people working there”. I wasn’t suggesting eliminating positions. I was referring to replacing positions.

    I am not suggesting reducing pay or eliminating their benefits either.

    You ask “how are they rewarded”?

    Simple. Hold people accountable. Most companys that I know of do reviews. Just getting or having a job should not be good enough. Results are the only thing that should matter.

    Do you have a better idea?

    Who, if anyone, specifically would be missed if they left? And I’m refering to the “leaders” in this administration. Not staff.


  4. vegas lady,

    I’ve read so many of your comments about the ability of the city’s employees to deliver services, that I feel compelled to respond. Qualifications, you ask? Have you pulled all of the civil service job announcements to see what qualifications are required? If not, you don’t have the right to imply that the city doesn’t require any qualifications of its potential employees. There were certain educational and experience qualifications that I had to have – and I’m just one of the part time employees.

    You link the use of outside studies and consultants to the assumption that employees are unqualified. Are you absolutely sure about that? Have you looked at the contracts for these studies and consultants to be sure that their contracts covered deliverables that would be within the expertise of the average city employee? Also, you imply by your statement that the only reason the mayor called in these outsiders is because he worked closely with his department heads and other employees to find answers and found that all of us were sorely lacking in intelligence and experience. Based on the mayor’s behavior in the past and his tendency to rush headlong into situations without thinking, I believe that he has not worked with, or even considered, the abilities of those who work for the city.

    You disparage the educational backgrounds of city employees without, I would guess, having checked into exactly what educational levels are represented among the staff. Many of us have college degrees and private sector work experience. When you state that “the city pays top dollar for unqualified people”, you better do your homework. I have a college degree, many years of professional management experience, and, frankly, could do a better job of running this city than the mayor has. Of course, I have to admit that wouldn’t be hard to do.

    As for top dollar pay and “best benefits” — As a retiree, I have far better benefits from my former employer than the full-time workers have with the city. Members of my family work for other private sector employers and have higher pay rates and better benefits than do the full time employees of the city. When you talk about over-paid, are you comparing city employees to comparable private sector employment? Or just those who run the drive-through at McDonald’s?
    You should review the state’s prevailing wage statistics for various occupations before you make judgments about “top dollar”.

    Now that the city has gone to four days per week to save money, there is no expectation that the work will diminish to match the time available. We work very hard to meet the demands of the city’s residents, who, may I add, frequently exhibit very “bad attitudes” toward city employees. We are yelled at, verbally abused and threatened. We still try to do the best we can.

    “Give me more”? Who is asking for more? We are just trying to maintain our homes and our families, like everyone else. We have given up pay, made concessions with health insurance and continue to work like hell. We are also taxpayers, just like you.


  5. Vegas Lady:

    Did you ask yourself who asks for all these ouside studies and consultants? What comes to fruition out of these studies? Has the mayor cut his staff? Did you ask yourself why does the mayor need so much legal representation? Have you looked at all the documentations showing how much is spent monthly on attorney fees? You want to blame the city employees. Most of the workers are just living paycheck to paycheck. They don’t have huge homes or cars. They pay their bills, send their children to school and pay their taxes. You refer to “some form of qualification”, then state “which most (employees) do not have”. What qualifications do they not have? I think you need to educate yourself and look at the bigger picture. Do the city employees have control on who is hired, fired and what money is spent where? I think not! Who is authorized to spend the city’s money? It is the mayor and the council – period!!!


  6. Vegas Lady,

    Your post makes it sound as if all our city employee’s are unqualified and without education.
    Firefighters and police officers need a college degree plus Academy certifaction to even apply.
    Our city workers are not demanding with the give me more attitude I just think that they want what they were promised. They have given back a lot and I am willing to pay a few dollars extra in my taxes to keep services and employee’s. I have talked to several employee’s and they do not have bad attitudes and were very friendly and helpful.


  7. Actually anon, with the headcount left over, there are quite a few that would be missed if they left. If you don’t pay well in any organization and then have zero or no benefits, you will have high turnover, less oversight, less institutional knowledge and poor performance.

    It may seem like a good idea to have a merit based system, the problem is that it could lead to nepotism and some positions are very difficult to assign quantitative quality measures to. Do you reward speed or quality? And how are they rewarded? What may seem reasonable to you, may be abhorrent to others. Right now many employees make way less than anyone in the county salary wise. If you take away benefits or gut them, you simply have zero reason to work in our city.

    When I have visited city hall, I was not dumbstruck by the overwhelming number of people working there. You take a few of those pieces out, you will have a mess when they leave.


  8. Budgets have to reflect the tax base of the city. Meaning the ability to pay. To work for the city apply and take a civil service test. How about some form of qualifications? Which most do not have. The city spends thousands of dollars for outside studies and consultants obviously because the employees do not have the qualifications. Some have little more than a high school education. The city pays top dollar for unqualified people. These same people demand city cars, the best benefits , and wages that far exceed the private sector. What does the taxpayer get for this ? Bad attitudes and give me more .


  9. Vegas Lady,
    Yes, some make a good salary. Do they deserve it? Most of them. And any taxpayer in the city CAN or COULD HAVE “jump(ed) at the chance.” Apply. Test. Get hired. Just like most employees have done. Simple as that. Don’t hate on people that did get a job with the city. And I still cannot find where anybody said that they are “underpaid.”


  10. Vegas Lady,
    So just for clarification are you saying that it’s okay for city employees to be paid more money as long as their city has all young urban professionals? It shouldn’t matter that there are alot of retirees. They weren’t always retired.


  11. Those college kids just might do a better job.

    They may be hungrier.
    They may be smarter.
    They may be friendlier.
    They may be more qualified.

    What makes you think if we paid BETTER, we’d get BETTER? Detroit pays better. Wayne County pays better. Should I keep going?

    How about PERFORM better and then we’ll pay better. How about earning it. Make it hard to let that person leave. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t see other cities or companys recruiting our “talent”.

    Is there ANYONE in the administration that we’d miss if they left? If so, who???


  12. Paid better???????? You have got to be kidding . The Powers that be make a good salary. The benefits add at least another 40 K . A package worth at least 110 thousand is underpaid? Almost every taxpayer in the City would jump at the chance for a package like this. When the median family income for women head of household is 34 thousand and men is 44 thousand in Dearborn Heights to say nothing of the 44 percent that are retirees. Paying better is not an option. Greedy Greedy Greedy people .


  13. Or better yet let’s just hire a bunch of college kids at intern rates to run our city and be the elected officials too. Or how about a bunch of “Monday morning quarterback” bloggers with nothing better to do. Get real.

    I’m not 100% happy with what’s been going on by our officials either, but in life I’ve learned that you get what you pay for. If we paid BETTER, then we’d GET better. Keep cutting and we’re just going to get a bunch of Fundarskis.


  14. RE: who would serve in place of the Mayor

    I’m sure there is a succession plan that names the “next in line”

    If we recalled the Mayor, I don’t think we’d be able to name a new one on the spot.


  15. Vegas Lady
    The work to get signatures and the expenses of a recall is for nothing unless there is someone qualified and willing to run. I think if the Mayor was successfully recalled you would find several people willing to throw their hat into the ring. The better option would be to wait for 2013 there is more than enough for any decent qualified person to run on..


  16. Look at he results of the last election that says alot about the voters.. How do you quality forward plan ? You can’t. Who would serve in place of the Mayor? Do we have a Dog Catcher?


  17. Just what is it people get for an early buy out. Beside their pensions do they get paid life insurance and paid health insurance? What does the package contain???? If they get all of the above How does that save any money?


  18. RE:Recall

    Who would serve in place of the Mayor?

    Would that person be a better choice or more of the same?

    Unless there is a better candidate ready to serve, the money spent on a recall would be better spent on some quality forward planning for all of the upcoming elections so we can improve our government with each election.


  19. Vegas Lady

    From my understanding the city is offering early outs to those who would like to leave the employment of the city before their time. They are going to be offered to by the time they need to leave. Some may meet the age requirement, but not the years of service. As was done back in March several people bought the years needed to leave early. During the town hall meetings the administration and the council said that they would be making additional cuts along with the HO. This is the beginning of those cuts.


  20. Psha
    No it does not, however you can assign benefits without making it so official you can’t get out. When salaries and benefits are 70% of your budget you have little room for the other necessities. I am sure the HO was not passed to make the benefit percentage 90 % and let the rest go to hell. Maybe they will close down on Thursdays to pay for it. Do you really think the HO was passed to give the Mayor better benefits? This is a slap in the face for passing the HO. It also says the Mayor and the Council haven’t learned anything . They got the money and now its business as usual. No thought …no plans. The taxpayers have been had. Although that was pretty much a given. Paying the Mayors benefits is much more important than fixing the streets. Next up a special tax to fix the streeets. If anyone can get a recall going count me in.


  21. I would like to see part time positions (council member) give up the benefits. The mayor is a full time position and deserves benefits, but in the future he really needs to make the ATTM a part time position without benefits. Remember the great retirement package that Ruth Canfield received?


  22. When benefits cost so much and they need to be curbed why extend them to non union employees? Or is this how the mayor gets his great benefits?


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